Netanyahu vows to turn Gaza into a “deserted island." Herzog asserts: “It’s an entire nation that is responsible. It’s not true, this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved.”
How do we as aware, sound Christian persons, accountable to Christ, allow this?
Championing Israel and millennia of Jewish people and history, of necessity means calling them out when they are wrong and urging them to be true to their sacred obligation as bearers of God's grace.
Oct 14, 2023·edited Oct 14, 2023Liked by Free Black Thought
Hi Connie. I'm a fan of your show. Very well done! Your convictions echo mine: first and foremost, I detest the word "race" because it was coined by bigots. I won't speak of "racism," only bigotry and discrimination. I've held this conviction for close to ten years, ever since my exposure to an exhibit at Philadelphia's Franklin institute made this crystal-clear. Such hard, factual science and history is now forbidden. It's also been clear to me for all my adult life that there is no such thing as a monolithic community within any ethnicity or culture. Last, I am a stickler for being precise with my words. All words have meanings, and my communication depends on me being precise. It's a shame more people don't feel the same.
I don't understand the thrust of Dumisani's reasoning. It is in incontestable that the Palestinians in Gaza are living under a reign of terror. Likewise, it is well known that Palestinians are treated poorly by other Arabs. This does not in any way induce feelings of sympathy for Israelis. This makes me greatly empathetic toward Palestinians as a whole. So when I urge and long for the recognition of a Palestinian state and acceptance of Palestinians, I mean this with the aim of separating the Palestinian citizen from Hamas or any other terroristic, evil, human being who gets his perverted sense of purpose from justifying a hatred toward another group of human beings. When I speak of Palestinians, I speak of those living within the nation's political borders. I speak of those living under the terrorist rule of Hamas.
I also take issue with the assertion that Palestinian history, replete with claims to their land, is fiction. I have known Palestinian families. Their sense of injustice as to their families' lands and birthrights being stolen is real. Archbishop Elias Chacour has made it clear that this shared history is real, as well. A man as intellectually incisive and searching as Dumisani certainly knows who Chacour is.
Absolutely I stand with Israel! I also stand with Palestine! What Hamas and Iran did was heinous, odious, repugnant. Words do not exist to accurately condemn this crime. Likewise, the murder of Palestinians by Israel in retaliation. Israel tells Palestinians to flee before they invade. Flee? Flee to where? The families I've known who have relocated to the United States only succeeded after tremendous hardship. Those who wish to renounce Hamas and flee elsewhere are met with resounding skepticism by Israel and Egypt and are routinely denied passage past the borders. So, danged right Palestinians are terrified of their ruling junta. Nobody - and I mean nobody - has their backs.
When I say I respect and love the Chinese people, I do so while retaining contempt for their government. When I say I respect and love the Russian people, I do so while retaining contempt for their government. When I say I respect and love the Palestinian people, I do so while retaining contempt for their government. And when I say I respect and love the Israeli people, I do so while retaining contempt for any government policy that reduces Palestinians to chattle, just another instance of bigots using the unscientific concept of "race" to justify their hatred. The Israelis who truly belief this of their neighbors, those who have not simply been brainwashed by their handlers, need to just join Hamas and be done with it.
Thanks for providing this forum. Thanks for your time.
I think Pastor Dumisani shares your sentiment towards Palestinians. He makes that clear in the interview actually and draws a distinction between Hamas and peace seeking civilians. Also noting that a large percentage of the civilian population actually does support Hamas.
I am unsure what you mean by Palestinian history being portrayed as fiction. What part of the podcast are you referring to? I'd also add that anyone can have a sincere "sense of injustice" but that doesn't mean the feeling is based in fact or reality. That said, Pastor Dumisani and his organization uplift and support the voices of Palestinians who want peace and stand up against Hamas and other forms of tyranny.
And yes, we should always separate the people from the governments that rule. I certainly don't want to be judged by the actions of the U.S. government.
This actually skirts a deeper concern for me, and that's even as the Right produces salient point after salient point about the wrongheadedness of the Progressive Left, they often adapt stances and produce talking points of their own that serve as litmus tests for truly being on their side. Many on the Right won't talk to me even as I passionately agree with many of the things they say, because I do not believe everything they say. I eschew the whole idea of "sides," really, or at least the ridiculous notion that there are only two sides. As you eloquently state, there is no uniform "Black perspective." There is no uniform perspective for any group. And it seems to me that I can freely and safely express my perspectives here, because I assure you they follow no political ideology.
I try greatly to adhere to a spiritual ideology.
I do not believe that a majority of the civilian population support Hamas. As we have all noted by now: Palestinians (as I use the term) can only not support Hamas under threat to themselves and their families. We have no way of knowing how many truly despise and despise Hamas, but we do know that Hamas terrorize their own people with impunity.
... Abraham pled for Sodom and our Lord relented. If there are only ten righteous people in Palestine, Israel must find another way! Israel bears the responsibility for the care of Palestinians, and they are denying that responsibility. The nation of Israel is essential to not only the stability of the Middle East, but to the development of the world. And yet... and yet... they deny this one thing. They deny dignity to this region. It is only within this one thing that Israel comes up sorely lacking, but it is an issue that strikes at the very soul of Israel. I have great regard and respect for for my Jewish family, and I recognize their contributions not only to the establishment of Christianity but to the development of the world as we know it. (I refer you and Pastor Dumisani to "The Gift of the Jews" by Thomas Cahill, among other scholarly works.) But Israel as a whole is failing their Palestinian neighbors, and this severely weakens their credibility on the world stage. They must fix this!
As to Dumisani claiming that Palestinian history is fiction, I don't recall the exact mark on the podcast that he made this claim. He said that several points of the Palestinian narrative as presented by many are "lies" and this was one of them. I hope you'll allow me the limitations on my time that prevent me from re-listening to this podcast. Especially as I have decided to listen to to the entire series, and I have more than ten podcasts left to indulge in. Hee, more comments to come underneath other embedded episodes.
Not only do I not recall referring to the Palestinian narrative as "fiction", I don't recall ever doing so. As for your statement, "I do not believe that a majority of the civilian population support Hamas" I believe I not only referred to polls being taken that state this (this one from December 2022 says 53%) https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-72-of-palestinians-support-forming-more-armed-groups-in-west-bank/, I believe I also stated that polls taken by Palestinian leaders cannot be blindly trusted as there is no free speech in Gaza OR the Palestinian Authority.
As for Israel bearing the responsibility for the Palestinian people, I leave you to your opinion.
Hi! I hope we have a productive dialogue going here! That would warm my heart.
"Fiction" is my word. "Lie" is yours. If I am applying your use of the word lie incorrectly - which may be - I apologize. Lord knows the media and politicians lie incessantly, but my knowledge is that Palestinians do indeed have a claim to the land. I believe your conviction is that this is an illegitimate claim.
What do you think of Elais Chacour? And have you dialogued with any Palestinians?
I hope you'll allow my useage of this denoynym.
The polls, as you concede, have been conducted upon a people under abominable duress.
Finally, how can the Israelis not have responsibility? They claim it all as their land. Israel takes responsibility for all its citizens. Except, for, you know...
I suspect you and I agree on many issues. I suspect that you and I would be enthralled by each other's rich, personal histories. And I pray we continue to listen to one another.
Dumisani needs to take one more step on saying that the funding comes from Iran. The ultimate funders of Hamas (and Hizballah), in fact, are the American taxpayer -- courtesy successive Democratic (not just Democratic Socialist -- plain Democratic) administrations, with Obama sending $1.7B to Iran in suitcases, to Biden sending $6B to Iran in bank assets right now, to $50B-$80B funneled to Iran by Democratic operative -- and Obama's Iran "point man" -- Rob Malley. The anti-Israel animus of the Democratic Party (again, not just DSA -- plain Democratic) is easy to understand. The Democratic Party believes that America is an apartheid state founded by settler imperialism. Which is exactly what enemies of Israel say about Israel. A shared ideology, a shared narrative, hence, a shared enemy, whatever gestures Democrat perform for election purposes. Pay no attention to what they say. Pay attention to what they do, and pay attention to what their allies in the press, academia, and entertainment say or refuse to say ("terrorist"). This is the reality that Democrat-voting Americas need to face and confront honestly.
Oh, I now see that Dumisani got to it. Thank you! This needs to be said: there is very little difference between the Democratic Party and the Democratic Socialists of America. The only difference is that the latter, the DSA, is more impatient -- and more honest about its agenda to overthrow America and replace it with a racially and wealth redistributive Socialist state. A Democrat is just a stealth DSA.
Netanyahu vows to turn Gaza into a “deserted island." Herzog asserts: “It’s an entire nation that is responsible. It’s not true, this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved.”
How do we as aware, sound Christian persons, accountable to Christ, allow this?
Championing Israel and millennia of Jewish people and history, of necessity means calling them out when they are wrong and urging them to be true to their sacred obligation as bearers of God's grace.
Hi Connie. I'm a fan of your show. Very well done! Your convictions echo mine: first and foremost, I detest the word "race" because it was coined by bigots. I won't speak of "racism," only bigotry and discrimination. I've held this conviction for close to ten years, ever since my exposure to an exhibit at Philadelphia's Franklin institute made this crystal-clear. Such hard, factual science and history is now forbidden. It's also been clear to me for all my adult life that there is no such thing as a monolithic community within any ethnicity or culture. Last, I am a stickler for being precise with my words. All words have meanings, and my communication depends on me being precise. It's a shame more people don't feel the same.
I don't understand the thrust of Dumisani's reasoning. It is in incontestable that the Palestinians in Gaza are living under a reign of terror. Likewise, it is well known that Palestinians are treated poorly by other Arabs. This does not in any way induce feelings of sympathy for Israelis. This makes me greatly empathetic toward Palestinians as a whole. So when I urge and long for the recognition of a Palestinian state and acceptance of Palestinians, I mean this with the aim of separating the Palestinian citizen from Hamas or any other terroristic, evil, human being who gets his perverted sense of purpose from justifying a hatred toward another group of human beings. When I speak of Palestinians, I speak of those living within the nation's political borders. I speak of those living under the terrorist rule of Hamas.
I also take issue with the assertion that Palestinian history, replete with claims to their land, is fiction. I have known Palestinian families. Their sense of injustice as to their families' lands and birthrights being stolen is real. Archbishop Elias Chacour has made it clear that this shared history is real, as well. A man as intellectually incisive and searching as Dumisani certainly knows who Chacour is.
Absolutely I stand with Israel! I also stand with Palestine! What Hamas and Iran did was heinous, odious, repugnant. Words do not exist to accurately condemn this crime. Likewise, the murder of Palestinians by Israel in retaliation. Israel tells Palestinians to flee before they invade. Flee? Flee to where? The families I've known who have relocated to the United States only succeeded after tremendous hardship. Those who wish to renounce Hamas and flee elsewhere are met with resounding skepticism by Israel and Egypt and are routinely denied passage past the borders. So, danged right Palestinians are terrified of their ruling junta. Nobody - and I mean nobody - has their backs.
When I say I respect and love the Chinese people, I do so while retaining contempt for their government. When I say I respect and love the Russian people, I do so while retaining contempt for their government. When I say I respect and love the Palestinian people, I do so while retaining contempt for their government. And when I say I respect and love the Israeli people, I do so while retaining contempt for any government policy that reduces Palestinians to chattle, just another instance of bigots using the unscientific concept of "race" to justify their hatred. The Israelis who truly belief this of their neighbors, those who have not simply been brainwashed by their handlers, need to just join Hamas and be done with it.
Thanks for providing this forum. Thanks for your time.
Hi Mark. Thanks for the feedback.
I think Pastor Dumisani shares your sentiment towards Palestinians. He makes that clear in the interview actually and draws a distinction between Hamas and peace seeking civilians. Also noting that a large percentage of the civilian population actually does support Hamas.
I am unsure what you mean by Palestinian history being portrayed as fiction. What part of the podcast are you referring to? I'd also add that anyone can have a sincere "sense of injustice" but that doesn't mean the feeling is based in fact or reality. That said, Pastor Dumisani and his organization uplift and support the voices of Palestinians who want peace and stand up against Hamas and other forms of tyranny.
And yes, we should always separate the people from the governments that rule. I certainly don't want to be judged by the actions of the U.S. government.
Thanks for listening and engaging!
-Connie
Thanks Connie!
This actually skirts a deeper concern for me, and that's even as the Right produces salient point after salient point about the wrongheadedness of the Progressive Left, they often adapt stances and produce talking points of their own that serve as litmus tests for truly being on their side. Many on the Right won't talk to me even as I passionately agree with many of the things they say, because I do not believe everything they say. I eschew the whole idea of "sides," really, or at least the ridiculous notion that there are only two sides. As you eloquently state, there is no uniform "Black perspective." There is no uniform perspective for any group. And it seems to me that I can freely and safely express my perspectives here, because I assure you they follow no political ideology.
I try greatly to adhere to a spiritual ideology.
I do not believe that a majority of the civilian population support Hamas. As we have all noted by now: Palestinians (as I use the term) can only not support Hamas under threat to themselves and their families. We have no way of knowing how many truly despise and despise Hamas, but we do know that Hamas terrorize their own people with impunity.
... Abraham pled for Sodom and our Lord relented. If there are only ten righteous people in Palestine, Israel must find another way! Israel bears the responsibility for the care of Palestinians, and they are denying that responsibility. The nation of Israel is essential to not only the stability of the Middle East, but to the development of the world. And yet... and yet... they deny this one thing. They deny dignity to this region. It is only within this one thing that Israel comes up sorely lacking, but it is an issue that strikes at the very soul of Israel. I have great regard and respect for for my Jewish family, and I recognize their contributions not only to the establishment of Christianity but to the development of the world as we know it. (I refer you and Pastor Dumisani to "The Gift of the Jews" by Thomas Cahill, among other scholarly works.) But Israel as a whole is failing their Palestinian neighbors, and this severely weakens their credibility on the world stage. They must fix this!
As to Dumisani claiming that Palestinian history is fiction, I don't recall the exact mark on the podcast that he made this claim. He said that several points of the Palestinian narrative as presented by many are "lies" and this was one of them. I hope you'll allow me the limitations on my time that prevent me from re-listening to this podcast. Especially as I have decided to listen to to the entire series, and I have more than ten podcasts left to indulge in. Hee, more comments to come underneath other embedded episodes.
Thank you so much, Connie!
Mark, thanks for listening to the episode.
Not only do I not recall referring to the Palestinian narrative as "fiction", I don't recall ever doing so. As for your statement, "I do not believe that a majority of the civilian population support Hamas" I believe I not only referred to polls being taken that state this (this one from December 2022 says 53%) https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-72-of-palestinians-support-forming-more-armed-groups-in-west-bank/, I believe I also stated that polls taken by Palestinian leaders cannot be blindly trusted as there is no free speech in Gaza OR the Palestinian Authority.
As for Israel bearing the responsibility for the Palestinian people, I leave you to your opinion.
Hi! I hope we have a productive dialogue going here! That would warm my heart.
"Fiction" is my word. "Lie" is yours. If I am applying your use of the word lie incorrectly - which may be - I apologize. Lord knows the media and politicians lie incessantly, but my knowledge is that Palestinians do indeed have a claim to the land. I believe your conviction is that this is an illegitimate claim.
What do you think of Elais Chacour? And have you dialogued with any Palestinians?
I hope you'll allow my useage of this denoynym.
The polls, as you concede, have been conducted upon a people under abominable duress.
Finally, how can the Israelis not have responsibility? They claim it all as their land. Israel takes responsibility for all its citizens. Except, for, you know...
I suspect you and I agree on many issues. I suspect that you and I would be enthralled by each other's rich, personal histories. And I pray we continue to listen to one another.
Peace.
Dumisani needs to take one more step on saying that the funding comes from Iran. The ultimate funders of Hamas (and Hizballah), in fact, are the American taxpayer -- courtesy successive Democratic (not just Democratic Socialist -- plain Democratic) administrations, with Obama sending $1.7B to Iran in suitcases, to Biden sending $6B to Iran in bank assets right now, to $50B-$80B funneled to Iran by Democratic operative -- and Obama's Iran "point man" -- Rob Malley. The anti-Israel animus of the Democratic Party (again, not just DSA -- plain Democratic) is easy to understand. The Democratic Party believes that America is an apartheid state founded by settler imperialism. Which is exactly what enemies of Israel say about Israel. A shared ideology, a shared narrative, hence, a shared enemy, whatever gestures Democrat perform for election purposes. Pay no attention to what they say. Pay attention to what they do, and pay attention to what their allies in the press, academia, and entertainment say or refuse to say ("terrorist"). This is the reality that Democrat-voting Americas need to face and confront honestly.
Follow the money...(?)
Oh, I now see that Dumisani got to it. Thank you! This needs to be said: there is very little difference between the Democratic Party and the Democratic Socialists of America. The only difference is that the latter, the DSA, is more impatient -- and more honest about its agenda to overthrow America and replace it with a racially and wealth redistributive Socialist state. A Democrat is just a stealth DSA.
Always appreciate your feedback George!
This podcast changed my life. Thank you.